Tuesday, July 29, 2008

Quick NFRC Post

My regular weekly post will be iup tomorrow night or Thursday AM... Its funny I have a group of readers who despise when I go into the NFRC stuff and then others who ONLY read the NFRC stuff... kinda tempts me to spin off a seperate blog!

So If you are not about NFRC blather skip it and wait til tomorrow. (and the normal post will be NFRC free!)

Anyway... a few items...

Remember the NFRC is about policing our industry. While the software they have has merit and could have serious value, all of the other stuff that is attached to it (certifications, inspections and costs) are what the problem is and will always be.

The NFRC had success in working with a residential industry that needed it, but time and again their lack of knowledge of the commerical industry and blatant lack of care of the commercial industries opinions makes me and many, many others crazy.

There's a Q& A up with Jim Benney at Glass Magazine's website and its pretty interesting to read. (Click Here for Q&A) The questions were solid- the answers- not so much. It was obvious again that money and the profiteering is controlling this adventure. And even people who are just getting into this for the first time are seeing it. Its amazing... just follow the money...

Anyway on the Q& A a few thoughts...

Jim was asked what NFRC is doing to engage interest... he noted he spoke to the AIA and they'll do some marketing and work with people to incentivise them to be early adopters. He then complimented the "Visionaries" of TRACO and Arcadia... yep sure... visionaries... they are the only sheep out there that are anywhere near supporting this Titanic of an effort... Industry 6000... NFRC 2. I'll never understand how TRACO with the intelligence they have there buys into this... unless of course there's a revenue stream that they see happening... and in that case, how can they be the only ones? It just does not make sense.

Jim was unable to address the question of "policing" the industry. Of course we have all said its a great design tool- but still no one can truly say "WE NEED POLICING" Every architect I have talked to agrees with the software and design tool but is dead against extra certifications and steps. Thats why they have CONTRACTS. You know legal documents.

When asked about costs he danced by that stating its out there in some form or another- which it is, but not complete or confirmed... because Jim knows that will cause a whole nother adventure when the costs come through.

ATTENTION GLAZIERS- This is how Jim states you'll be paying:

The software will charge the manufacturer
to store data, (pay me!)
to use the software, (ka Ching)
for label certificates, (oh yeah!)
for program dispense, (mo money)
for lab fees (never forget to tip your labtender!)
and for IA [independent agency] fees. (can't let the IA's go hungry too!)

The IA fees will be set by the IAs.

Bold face and parentheses mine... Yep look at them thar fees... (looks like at least 6 different things to pay for!)$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Sickening... and for what?

And to further that, when Jim was asked about the pretty much guaranteed bottlenecks that will happen when this happens (IF it happens)...

"Simulation industry is ready and waiting for the business. We’re accrediting new simulators every six months. It’s a growing industry."

HUH YOU DON'T SAY! An industry is growing because of this completely un-needed program? And its the Simulation Industry too! hmmmmm

Oh but I guess Jim missed the note I had up yesterday that the simulators don't have much experience with Aluminum... oh yes this is going to be great!

Last Jim had to get some digs in about being a "consensus".... its amazing that people buy into this stuff... On one hand they are a 501c3 (take a drink) but ohhhh wait on the other they are "consensus" group and that's how "consesus" groups work.

Folks the only reason they are trying to play the "consensus" card is they know groups like AIA, ICC etc promote the importance of "consensus" decisions. Saying NFRC is a consesus group- especially on this issue is insane... though actually there is a consesus.. basically our entire industry with the exception of two "visionaries" are against this thing..... but even when votes go that way they are ignored and overturned... way to listen to the consensus guys!

Its a joke. I guess the highlite for me is that with all that is out there, the chances of this being the SS Titanic are still pretty good. The shame is the time, effort and resource that is wasted.

The next two days should be interesting... obviously they'll keep pushing their angles and we'll keep hammering away here.


Anonymous said...

charge...the simulators will CHARGE the framing system manufacturers to simulate each and everyone one of their systems...

Max Perilstein said...

Funny- since the NFRC reads this blog probably more than I do, they had to try and cover the cost angle today with a cute blurb.. except they leave out so much... its just comical...
Bottom line is this un-needed certification will add significant money to the jobs... all so the labs and the "growing business" of suimulation can prosper.

Anonymous said...

Hi Max,
one of my customers - glazing contractor - read your blog when in my office this morning. He had no idea about NFRC and asked me a few questions. I couldn't answer very well, so I deffered to you and he will be reading up on NFRC and your Blog.

FYI, the question was "If I am supplying a specified product, my supplier is IGCC & SGCC certified, my shop drawings have been approved and the mock-up is complete and ok...... what purpose is there for another level of policing?"

Maybe you can take a stab at it ...for a fee, of course.

Jim F

Anonymous said...

"what purpose is there for another level of policing?"

Because NFRC doesn't think legally binding contracts in the commercial construction industry mean anything and they are a 501c3 (drink) "protecting the public interest" against the liars, cheats, and thieves, a.k.a. wall system manufacturers and glass fabricators.

Anonymous said...

Hey Max, I heard Jim Benney fell asleep at the head table yesterday during the NFRC meeting. Can you confirm this?

Max Perilstein said...

Thanks for the comments folks...

I'd be shocked if Jim fell asleep but I did see a post at Glass Magazine's site that people were sleeping!

Its really all about the money...

And as for Jim, it does not matter what certs your supplier has, this is a whole different deal- one so off the wall, 98% of the world has no clue its coming... if it indeed does actually come.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't Jim Benney. It was someone else. He's not an NFRC staffer, but fairly prominent in the food chain there.